Victor: Do you listen to all the experts on podcasts and think, "no wonder they're experts. They're awesome. They're smart. They're..." -- stop right there! You're awesome. You have a story to tell, and there really is no one like you. Fellow normal humans Dalia Ramahi and Jordan Drayer share what they've learned in hopes of inspiring you to find your unique voice. This is the Blooming Voices Podcast. Go to bloomingvoices.com for more information. Now let's get to it.
Jordan: Hi there. Welcome to the Blooming Voices Podcast. I'm Jordan Drayer.
Dalia: And I'm Dalia Ramahi. We're so excited to have you guys here today. So let me ask you a question. Have you ever failed at anything?
Jordan: Um, I don't know. Have I failed at something?
Dalia: If the answer is yes, that's awesome. That's what we're going to talk about today.
Jordan: Yes.
Dalia: Failure, hitting up, like hitting against a wall. And what does that mean?
Jordan: And is it really failure or is it a time -- is it just growth? Is it just necessary?
Dalia: Yeah. So we're going to talk about all of that today. So tune in, and if you have any questions at the end of the show, please feel free to email us. Ready to get started, Jordan?
Jordan: Yes. Okay. So we are going to start off with these supposed failed careers and Dalia just told me something very interesting I want to hear more about, uh, being a music producer.
Dalia: Yeah. Back, uh, when I was in college, I was -- well, even before I -- I've always been fascinated with music, and of course, I'm sure you can relate to that. Um, you know, doing piano and violin and guitar since I was a little kid. When I was in college, I'm like, I want to be a DJ, I want to be a DJ. So when I got out of college and started making my own money, I decided I was going to pursue that. So I pursued being a DJ and a music producer, and my twin sister, and I used to go to New York every weekend from DC. And we lived that dream for a while, but I'm not a music producer now. So you can tell where that went. It kind of just --
Jordan: So Dalia, wait, I've got a question for you. Was that, was all that a waste of time? Was that a mistake?
Dalia: Oh, you know, according to my parents, yup!
Jordan: Of course.
Dalia: But honestly, no, because I look back at that time so fondly. Um, we just, I think what happened was my sister and I both kind of just grew out of that, and we wanted to try other things, but I don't consider that a waste of time at all. We had so much fun doing it. We learned so much about ourselves. Um, we met new people. You know, me and my sister were, uh, like we went to a private school. And so we were around the same people from elementary school through high school. And then in college, we kind of stuck to our same crew, you know, same kind of people. So when we left college, and we started like getting out there in the world, and being exposed to different people, and just having this new experience through deejaying and music production, it was so rewarding and like, wow, our world just opened up so wide. So of course I don't regret that. And I don't think it was a waste of time. I loved every minute of it.
Jordan: Yeah, I really think that it is what you need in the moment. There's nothing wrong. As long as yes, you are funding it somehow adequately and don't get into a bunch of debt. But like, I, I think it's, this is another interesting thing we have in common. I didn't realize the extent of your musical background like mine.
Dalia: Yeah.
Jordan: And 'cause like when I went to university, first I was a French horn performance major. My goal was to be in the London Symphony Orchestra because specifically they travel the most of any orchestra. They've done, like all the movies. And I was like, I could play in movies. But in the end I switched from music -- I switched from horn performance to just general Bachelor of Arts in Music as I went to more competitions and I was like, oh, I'm good, but I'm not that good. And I also don't really want to practice six hours a day and it makes me feel isolated. So I graduated and I was like, I don't want to play for food, basically. I want to play just for fun. And my horn teacher at FSU always said, having a music degree is just a glorified burger flipping degree or something like that.
Dalia: Wow. Okay.
Jordan: But I don't regret anything 'cause like, I don't know, like it was something I needed to open up. Yeah. I was really shy in high school and stuff. And music, I dunno, that was how -- that was where I found my friends in music and marching band and stuff. And so it helped me to open up even more to be in college and like joining a music fraternity and all these things to help me grow as a person. So maybe, yeah, I'm not playing professionally anymore, and I've sold my French horn, and I hardly play guitar, but it was important.
Dalia: I agree. And you know, I don't think that any of that is by accident. Our inner selves, our higher selves, whatever you want to call it, that deeper part of ourselves, kind of guides us. And sometimes, I mean, not sometimes it always knows what we need better than we do. And if we pay attention to and just honor that voice inside of us sometimes, it leads us in these directions that you can't explain a scarily to other people or other thing is such a waste of your talent or an opportunity, whatever it is.
Jordan: Yeah. I have read --
Dalia: It's exactly what you need.
Jordan: Yeah. I've read that. If you keep hearing this little voice, like I want to paint, I really want to paint, then you probably need to paint. There is something in you telling you, like, you need this, you need to paint. Maybe not for a career, but you, you should, you should take it up in your free time or something. Something in painting will help you right now.
Dalia: Exactly. You don't have to go like big and so like -- not everything is like this big, bold, loud action. Sometimes it's a quiet little action, like a hobby or just, it's like just something you might occasionally take on or once in a while. And you realize, wow, this fulfills me in a way that I haven't experienced before. And I love it. You know?
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: Speaking of that place is what caused me to leave my corporate job after over 11 years, you know? Um, almost 11 years. I, um, I kept hearing this voice nagging that says, you need to change. Like it's time to go. You know? And all the friends that I made in the company when I first joined had left years before me, and they moved on, and I still stayed at that company that I was at. And I just, towards the end, I kept hearing this voice like, no, you need this change.
And it -- and the voice was for me, I kept trying to ignore it. So for months I kept ignoring this voice and it kept growing louder --
Jordan: 'Cause it's --
Dalia: -- it didn't get quieter.
Jordan: It's such a comfortable job. Right?
Dalia: Yeah, and --
Jordan: And it's, it's, it's not flexible --
Dalia: -- I was making good money --
Jordan: -- but it's stable and yeah, money.
Dalia: Yeah. I mean, and I developed a seniority there, and I had -- it was, it was a -- it was a really good, comfortable position. And I liked the people that I worked with, you know, and I didn't have problems with anyone, and, and the money was great and there's a lot of stability, but I mean, when you wanna, when you try to ignore something, it just bangs louder in your head. Like it literally does.
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: And I hope that you all get to experience something like that because it's so easy to stay asleep.
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: And to stay comfortable in what we are and what we're doing.
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: And taking that first step is always scary. But I mean, like again, I started a new business because I wanted to pursue voice acting. So I started a pet services company, and I took care of dogs and cats and --
Jordan: Something more flexible.
Dalia: -- lizards and hamsters and bunnies. And I failed at that business too -- well, not really failed, but yeah, because I gave it up, you know what I mean?
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: So I didn't, I didn't continue with it. So I don't necessarily consider that a failure, but I realized I wanted to just focus on voice acting. So.
Jordan: Yeah. And I don't know, any date, like dating --
Dalia: Oh, yeah!
Jordan: -- I'm not good at it, but I can, I can see that it is a process that needs to happen. Like, I, I was going out with a guy for like two months, and then he said, he's still thinking of his ex. And so we like broke up, even though it didn't -- I don't really know if I could call it a breakup, 'cause it's like, were we actually together? I'm not really sure. But anyway, like it's not a mistake. And so many things, I just don't believe in mistakes. I really don't, like, this is a personal thing, like a mantra for me that I don't make mistakes. Like, yes, I can make wrong choices --
Dalia: Yas, Jordan. Say that again for the people in the back. What do you -- what don't you do?
Jordan: I don't make mistakes. I -- I might make bad choices. Like maybe I should not have yelled at this person, but this too was a learning thing. Oh, okay. This person is sensitive. I should not talk to them like that if I want to be a good friend to them or, okay.
Dalia: But you know, it's not -- and then just, just for a quick second, it's not just even about sensitivity, right?
Jordan: No.
Dalia: It's you acknowledging that your way of being for this particular person doesn't jive with them.
Jordan: Well, I also --
Dalia: And --
Jordan: -- I also think this goes towards like, even like addicts. I don't believe, yes, it's a wrong, it's a -- well okay, it's a bad choice to, you know, become, not that anyone wants to become an addict.
Dalia: Yeah.
Jordan: Like that you become addicted. Yes. That's, that's not good, but maybe it needed to happen for some reason. Like maybe because you just need a lot of growth, who knows? You needed this to happen, or maybe your addict story really will help someone else. Uh, so you never know, like there are no mistakes. There are, there are good and bad choices, but there are no mistakes because they're necessary in a way.
Dalia: I agree with that a hundred percent and nothing's by accident. And the, what I believe is nothing, nothing happens by accident, and whatever you experience in life is meant to propel you forward in some way, if you're willing to grow and learn from it.
Jordan: Yes.
Dalia: And some people need to repeat that cycle a few times in different ways, but with similar patterns over and over again, until they can finally see that for themselves.
Jordan: Yeah. That's true.
Dalia: It's not mistakes. It's learning opportunities. What you're being offered, people, are learning opportunities.
Jordan: Yes. It's always a learning opportunity.
Dalia: Yeah. And so, but that goes back to our initial conversation. We were talking about failure. If you've ever failed at something great, you're human. And that means you tried, you took a risk and you tried.
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: There are so many people who just stay -- like, imagine if I stayed at my job and ignored the voices, I would have probably been so miserable right now.
Jordan: Yeah. There's, there's quotes or whatever. I don't know the exact, but uh, talking about like inventors, like of the light bulb or whatever. You, you see the finished product, you don't know how many 10,000 failures they had before that.
Dalia: Exactly. Look even something more like relatable to us, voice acting. How many takes does it sometime take to get a take right? Be a tongue twister.
Jordan: Yeah, a tongue twister. How many takes would it take --
Dalia: How many takes does it take to get a take right? Whatever. But it's, but like, it's not always perfect from those first times. Like I laugh every time, uh, whenever, like, you know, last year when everyone was home with COVID, uh, not with COVID, but because of the pandemic, you know, during quarantine, um, I used to see posts all the time from people getting on TikTok, like, "uh, look at me, I just did this in one try. I'm awesome. Look at at me go." And then other people I would see in comments were like, "well, I tried this like 50 times, and I still can't get it."
And so I'm like, the reality is, first of all, I know for a fact that those people didn't do it in one try, because I saw the behind the scenes footage of them doing it multiple times. But they need -- but people feel like they need to put on this fake image, this persona that they did -- get everything right from the first time. And it's just not true. If someone tells you that they don't ever make a mistake or they don't fail, and that everything they touch just is, is from the, from like the first go-around, i's not true. You know what I mean?
Jordan: Yeah --
Dalia: They're either telling you or they're just, what is it, sharing a bunch of BS?
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: Or they're in denial or maybe, maybe once in a while that might happen, but not every time.
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: It's just not true.
Jordan: Yeah. And like that would annoy me too in the English teaching in the high school, at the French high school where kids would, I'd be like, "okay, can you read this?" "No, no, not me. No, I'm not good at English!" It's like, why, why are we here? We're here so you can get better.
Dalia: Exactly.
Jordan: Like, go ahead and make a mistake. You hear me make mistakes in French all the time. And --
Dalia: Exactly.
Jordan: But -- it was something interesting somebody posted once about a study of how do we make people get okay with long-term goals? Like something that takes a long time to get good at, how do we make people have more patience for this? And one of the answers was music, like practicing an instrument requires a lot of time. And I could say the same for painting or whatever. It requires a lot of time. And it won't be good the first time, like, oh, those bad violin players, like with the screechy concerts. Like, sorry, parents or whoever, you just have to suffer through that because you have to support them.
Dalia: Exactly. Nobody, I mean, even if someone with natural talent still needs to cultivate that talent. Do you think a little kid who you find out has a beautiful voice, just naturally knows how to sing in tune and knows all the things required and how to take care of their vocal instrument, all that stuff? No, they gotta get training. They gotta be taught all that stuff so that they can use their natural talent to the best of their abilities. Ability is different from talent. You can have no real talent and still develop a really great ability.
Jordan: Yeah. I truly believe everybody can learn to draw. I meet so many people where they're like, "oh, I wish I could draw like you, I just can't draw." It's like, "yeah, you can. If you took the time to learn."
Dalia: Exactly. I draw the best stick figures in town, but it's true. Just whatever it is, I think that if you have an idea in your mind, then it's worth exploring that idea regardless of whether it ends in failure or not.
Jordan: And don't give up it's, if it's -- if it's not good the first time, because nothing will be.
Dalia: Oh my God. Yes. And, and one final point before we wrap this up, those failed ideas is could -- what lead you to a really great idea.
Jordan: Yeah!
Dalia: So just keep trying. I don't think, and by the way, it's okay to reinvent yourself many, many times through the course of your life. I'm graduating with my Master's um in just like, um, very soon, like in a week or so in about a week. And, um, when I first started, I'm like, God, I feel so old. Like I waited to do my Master's and then I got an internship, and everybody there was like 10, 15 years younger than me.
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: And I was like, oh my God, I feel like such an oldie, you know, what am I doing here?
You know? And then I remembered it's okay, I'm reinventing myself. I'm learning something new. And I went for it, and I graduated with a near 4.0 GPA. And I'm so proud of myself for taking that on and doing that.
Jordan: Aw, yay.
Dalia: So it doesn't matter. You just, you surprise yourself when you stretch yourself.
Jordan: Yeah. And there's always those stories of the people that go back to college at 90. So you're not that old.
Dalia: Yeah. So I'm definitely ahead of the game then.
Jordan: Yes. Yes. I think that, yeah, that there's too much uh, there's too much hate to put on people changing sometimes, like changing careers even.
Dalia: Yeah.
Jordan: Like, I think that's, that comes from an old mentality of the people that stay in their career like 20 years or whatever, or even like changing --
Dalia: That doesn't exist anymore.
Jordan: No. And well, in some countries, yes.
Dalia: Yeah.
Jordan: But like even the idea of changing ideas, like people -- oh, I get annoyed when with, with court cases or like even politicians when somebody says, "well, you said this in 1984." I's like, okay. He was 20 years old in 1984 or whatever. He's now 50. Do -- do you not think he's changed in some ways? Yes, people change.
Dalia: Exactly. The flip-flop -- it's not flip-flopping. Oh, let's -- politicians are the exception. Nobody likes them -- no, I'm just kidding, but maybe that's true. I think that's true. But anyway, um, but they're allowed to change their minds too.
Jordan: Yeah!
Dalia: Everybody is. And uh, you're allowed to reinvent yourself --
Jordan: Especially over 30 years!
Dalia: Let's face it. If you're not changing your mind, evolving your views, then you're stuck in the past --
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: -- plain and simple. Like if, if you have the same views at 50 that you did at 20, then I encourage you, not making you wrong, and I'm not shaming you. But if you have the same views, to really challenge yourself, because what, what, what have you been exposed to that allowed you to maybe grow from that? You know what I mean?
Jordan: Well, I mean, there's some things -- I would, I would argue back on that a little, like I'm 30 now. And like there's some things I would hope to still think in the future, like, you know, environmental consciousness. I would hope to have that same view when I'm 50.
Dalia: Yeah. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not talking about like, um -- like, uh, I, I think what I'm referring to are basic views that people tend to hold because of things that were in their environment, but they never really took the time to challenge. You know what I mean? And, you know, speaking of like environmental or societal views, that's a big one. You know what I mean? Because as our society changes, so does our point of views, hopefully, in, in a way that benefits everybody, you know what I mean? Um, I think it's -- I'm not gonna sit here and making it a politics discussion or something like that. I just mean in general. Like if you think the same way that you did, when you're 20 about most things about -- and I'm talking about the way you approach life, like your -- the way you approach life, because your needs at 20 are very different than at 30 or 40. Okay guys. So I hope that you found this podcast enlightening.
Jordan: Yes. Go ahead and make mistakes because they are not mistakes. They are learning opportunities. And they're just you trying out new things. Just the, just the point of this podcast, working on things, seeing what works, maybe that didn't work. Okay. I won't do that again.
Dalia: There you go. And that's the final word. Awesome. Oh my God. This was so fun.
Jordan: Yes. Thank you for giving me the idea.
Dalia: All right, guys, we will see you next time.
Jordan: Yes. Thank you so much. And you can always reach us on email, on the website, and we will see you next time. Thank you.
Victor: That's our show. Didn't get enough of the twins? Go to BloomingVoices.com for more information and let us know what you thought of the episode. Twitter, Instagram, email, we've got the works. We'll see you next Wednesday.
