Victor: Do you listen to all the experts on podcasts and think, "no wonder they're experts. They're awesome. They're smart. They're..." -- stop right there! You're awesome. You have a story to tell, and there really is no one like you. Fellow normal humans Dalia Ramahi and Jordan Drayer share what they've learned in hopes of inspiring you to find your unique voice. This is the Blooming Voices Podcast. Go to bloomingvoices.com for more information. Now let's get to it.
Jordan: Hi guys. Welcome to the Blooming Voices Podcast. I'm Jordan Drayer.
Dalia: And I'm Dalia Ramahi. We're so excited that you guys are joining us today for another episode.
Jordan: Yes. So today we're going to vent a little bit and I'm sure you can relate to this when we talk about negative feelings that aren't normally allowed in conversation sometimes.
Dalia: [laughs] And not just negative feelings, but, um, you know, the lulls, the wins, the losses, the gains in whatever you're trying to do. Right? And how to, how to navigate that. So...
Jordan: A lot of this is going to relate to voiceover, but if you're listening, maybe you can relate it to something in your field. I'm sure that there's some transfer. So.
Dalia: As small business owners, right? We're small business owners --
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: -- creatives, artists.
Jordan: Watching other people --
Dalia: I think so many people will relate to it, yeah.
Jordan: Yeah. Like your competitors. So like recently, I'm not sure when -- I guess there there's this thing called the One Voice Awards or one, One Voice something that's coming up and like, -- okay. So I need to do more research, but yeah, it's an awards thing.
Dalia: Yup.
Jordan: And so people are posting about it on Facebook and "I had this and this, and I'm so happy to be an, uh, like nominated for this." And then people are posting about their work, how much work they've put in. And I have another friend that, um, recently got in like really big video game role he'd always wanted. And he talked about having taken 200 classes in three years, and I was like, "wow, I just have not worked that much." And this shows why I'm not as far along in voiceover as I would want to be, but also I don't have the time or the money for that. Three years. Like I was working a job that was on the weekends and it was hard for me to get off to go to certain acting classes.
Dalia: Yeah. And, you know, and, and your feelings are legit, but you know, what I want to say to about that is I feel that way too, at times. I think what, when I see my colleagues and my, um, fellow artists just across the board, whether they're voice actors or not winning and succeeding, I am genuinely so excited for them. But there are moments when I, it makes me reflect. I'm like, "okay, great. I'm so happy that they're that far along in their career." It makes me pause and say, "where am I in my career?" And I want, and I'm like, "am I that excited for myself as well?" You know, am I, am I, am I as excited for myself as I am for other people? And if at that moment, the answer is no, I have to think about what the heck am I doing to myself and with my future, you know what I mean?
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: And, uh, then I realize I'm like, do I need to be investing in more coaching? Can I do that right now? Sometimes like financially, it's not always realistic.
Jordan: I know. I wish that there was some kind of financial map or that, I don't know, somebody would give a guide for that. I guess there can't really be a guide though 'cause it's all up to you. And what privilege you had perhaps, or maybe, 'cause I --
Dalia: And also what you want out of your career.
Jordan: Yeah, or I always thought too, like it's, it's so much easier to have a spouse if you're doing this kind of freelance career or if you're already retired. Like I knew a lady that was just getting into voiceover in her sixties. And so she has like a pension to live on, and she can take these classes freely.
Dalia: Yeah.
Jordan: She's not working.
Dalia: Yeah. And you know, for the, for the, most of us, the reality is a lot of voice actors have full-time jobs already or a couple of part-time jobs, or, you know, maybe they're married, but they're a full-time mom or parent or whatever it is, you know what I mean? So they can't dedicate all their time to taking a bunch of classes and spending all their money on training, training, training. I think that each person -- and you know, I have to stop and remind myself of this every day -- we're all on our journey and it's perfectly timed for us.
Jordan: Yeah...
Dalia: And I, and I -- I know that sounds like "ugh we get it. We all hear that," but it's so true. And, and you know what you choose what you believe. So in my mind, I've adopted this belief because it gets me through the moments that don't feel as good. My life is perfectly time for me, and I know what I'm doing and what I'm not doing. So like, let's talk about marketing really quickly.
Jordan: Okay.
Dalia: As, as small business owners, because first and foremost, we are small business owners. Voiceover's our product or our service. And, um, when I was taught that by my marketing coach, I was like, yeah. So I treated myself as a creative artist first, rather than a small business owner. And as a small business owner, what is it that you need to do first? Get your word out there, get your name out there, your product, your service, but how do you make marketing authentic to you? Because I'm not an aggressive personality type. I'm not going to be like, "hey, look at me, look what I can do for you. What do you need? Let me show, let me help you with --"
Jordan: I know. No matter how many emails I do, and I am good at it -- because people will be like, "wow, oh, you actually do emails. That's really cool. I just rely on my agent." Like is no matter how many emails I do. I still feel slimy doing it.
Dalia: Yeah, and I -- it's why? That's the question. Like everybody does it. So it's like, why do we have to see it with this filter? I ask myself that all the time. I'm like, "why do I have this filter and this block when it comes to marketing?" I didn't like the answer because I think for me, the answer I came to was that it had everything to do with how I see myself --
Jordan: How you see yourself, yeah.
Dalia: -- not the actual act of marketing, and like --
Jordan: I think, well, for me, there's some kind of like stranger -- like I don't talk to strangers. I don't talk to people. I don't know. Very, I mean, I can easily, but like, so I'm emailing someone, I don't know. And then when I get emails from people I don't know, I'm like, okay, whatever, like, who are you? So I, I do my best -- I do my best to craft the email so they know it's a person and not a bot, and it doesn't sound too salesy and stuff.
Dalia: Yeah.
Jordan: And I've, I've just gotten emails to be really short over time and be like, "hey, this is who I am. Here's my website. Thank you. Bye."
Dalia: I think that's good though. I'm laughing not at you, but I'm just laughing at the idea when you said the stranger thing, because I, I'm the same exact way. Like I'm the person like, I don't like, you know, just even simply I don't answer phone numbers I don't know. If someone comes to my door, I don't answer the door to someone I don't know.
Jordan: Yeah. So annoying too.
Dalia: Like why would I answer an email or talk to people that I don't know, but sometimes we have to, and like you said, you just find a way that works for you. And so for you being short, direct, but authentic, like a succinct email, that's authentic to you, works better than constantly going doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo, back and forth, you know?
Jordan: Yeah. I've heard that the agent emails can be longer because you're supposed to talk about things you've done, but even there too, I'm like, well, they don't have much time. And are they really going to care that I -- maybe, yeah. You can say like two things like Coca-Cola and Disney, and then that's it. I don't know.
Dalia: Yeah. And at the end of the day, it's all a numbers game, right? So, I mean, according to other artists, anyone who self markets always wants to throw out the term, it's a numbers game. I get it. I truly get it. It is a numbers game because the more you do, the more likely you're, you're going to get some kind of hit back, some kind of positive, um, you know, reciprocation.
Jordan: Yeah. There's a marketing coach that talks about spray and pray. And he, he doesn't like that. But I think it does work because that's part of the numbers game.
Dalia: I'm sorry, I'm not familiar, I'm not familiar with -- oh, you mean like, just to do like a, do a mass thing, to do.
Jordan: Yeah. Yes. You do need to target. Like I'm not going to go out for, I don't know, things that are traditionally male, like construction voiceover, I guess, or things like whatever. So you can't spray to everyone, but you should to spray, like to a large number of people, and then you wait and pray.
Dalia: Yeah. I like that. And, and, you know, it's funny. Um, I was with my, uh, VO accountability group the other day. And, uh, we were talking about this specific, exact topic is that, you know, what is authentic marketing because, you know, do you tailor each email to each specific client? 'Cause that can be time consuming and um, or do you try to do a mass email and just hit as many people as you can, right? And I think that --
Jordan: A mass email, yeah.
Dalia: Yeah. And I think that, it seems for me that the best approach would be to do some kind of combination depending on what your personality is, you know, what, what feels right to you?
I think at the end of the day, what we're trying to say is whether it's specifically about marketing or not, anything that you do for yourself as a person or in your business needs to be in alignment with your values and the kind of life you're living. Otherwise, you're just going to constantly feel like you're in quicksand, or you're being left behind, or you're going in the wrong direction even.
Jordan: And that's exactly --
Dalia: And that all starts with your thoughts.
Jordan: That's exactly how I feel like in going back to France this year, that I'm putting voiceover on hold again somehow, and I'm losing in this race. And even though I can do voiceover there and there, like I could even make a niche there and I could stay in France, I need to stop thinking of it as a race. And that, that somehow voiceover is going to disappear if I don't do it in the next seven months.
Dalia: Exactly. Because I think when you, when you, when you tend to look at things like that, what does a race have a beginning and an end? And this is something you want to do forever, as long as you're living, I hope.
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: You know what I mean? It's something that you love to do. So there is no end, you know what I mean? If you see it as a race, that means you're constantly looking behind you, to your left, to your right, and in front of you. And you just focus what's in front of you instead of to the -- all the other sides, because a race implies a winner and a loser, and we're not in this to win or lose. We're in this to just sustain a momentum that's forward with the rest of our lives. You know what I mean?
Jordan: Yeah. Or like there's always that one role that was made just for you, but it's, it's, it's never rejection. It's just, they chose someone else.
Dalia: Exactly. Like, I, I want to give you an example. You know, um, I got this audio book. Okay? And, um, they reached out to me. I didn't seek it. And it's the first time something like that has happened, you know what I mean?
Jordan: That's cool.
Dalia: And I was so excited about it. And then I had a beautiful chat with the author, and she told me that I was actually her first choice. And, uh, I mean, I played it cool on the call. I was so grateful, and I, and she definitely saw and heard my excitement.
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: She said that, but when I got off the call, I genuinely started crying and I'm not a sappy person. Like I was, I was crying from happiness. Do you know what I mean? Because it was, I was so happy that the only way I could express it is through tears, and I am not a crier, you know? I don't, I don't cry at things. So, but it was, I was just so overwhelmed with joy that I found myself crying when I was done with the call. And I was like, "oh my gosh, this is what it means to have a role that's meant for you." And if you can just take that belief into every job you auditioned for, or every job you go for, or every thing that you want to pursue in your life, that whatever is meant for you will come to you easily without this tension, then you can just go about your day freely. Do you know what I mean?
Jordan: I like that. Yeah.
Dalia: Yeah. So that's my two thoughts about everything we've talked about or three or four thoughts, whatever. I wasn't keeping count.
Jordan: Yeah. Maybe, I don't know, But I would just, just to sort of bring it back to like the 200 classes in three years thing --
Dalia: Yeah.
Jordan: -- like maybe, I mean, yeah. Like I always got to remember there's those people and we've talked about it before, like they get famous in their forties or, and --
Dalia: yep.
Jordan: -- like maybe, 'cause I, I'm still working and have a lot of student debt, and like, I don't know, this, maybe this guy saved up or worked some job and got a lot of money. And then he was able to take the time off and do a lot of voiceover classes and not work, which would be my goal too. But like I'm not there yet. And I don't know, maybe he had parents that --
Dalia: And you know, he --
Jordan: -- paid for him or something.
Dalia: But you know, Jordan, and it could be that he just lived and breathed wanting to get into a video game.
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: And so, um, that's what his focus is on.
Jordan: Yeah, like I want to get into a video game, but I also want to socialize and also want to play video games myself --
Dalia: Exactly.
Jordan: -- or like go hiking.
Dalia: So, it's like you know, you know, you always hear those, um, millionaire startups that they literally work 24 hours a day or whatever it is on this one thing, they were obsessive about it. You know what I mean?
Jordan: That's kind of like my managers at the Coldstone I'm working at now. They came to America just to work a whole lot. And then they're going to go back to their country, like rich.
Dalia: Yeah. So yeah, so they have, so they are obsessed with their goal.
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: And I, and I think that's an amazing thing, but not everybody is mentally in that space where they can get so focused and so obsessed with that one goal that they can tune everything else out, because everybody has their own life experiences. And that's why that when I, when I want to beat myself up over sometimes where I'm at, I remind myself, it's okay. I had an interesting life and um, some really different life experiences than some people. And, and, and that's all shaped me into the woman that I am today.
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: And, and so, whatever, wherever I'm at is perfect for me because I've had to learn, and heal, and overcome and, and push past certain limitations. And that was it. You know?
Jordan: Yeah, and maybe your journey helps someone else, but it's like too, I don't want to be that obsessed with any one thing. Like for me, I like the balance and mo -- 'cause balance to me is a very important value and moderation.
Dalia: See, you, then you're -- it might not seem to it. Then you already have one of the most precious things ever. You're already in your mind, even though you don't think you are where society tells you you should be based on where all your colleagues are right now. You're living an easy and relaxed life because balance is one of your values. So if you stay aligned with your values, then what's coming to you will come to you as long as you just keep focused forward.
Jordan: Yeah. And I do need to get back to email marketing though in general.
Dalia: Yeah. But you'll get back to it, feeling aligned with it.
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: Because you know, you find the most success when you're excited about doing something. Like when I'm not excited about doing email marketing or marketing of any kind, I don't do it, because I want to bring all that positive energy that I'm in to what I'm doing. Not that begrudging energy, like crap. I have to do this now?
Jordan: Yeah. At one of the VO Atlanta's, one of the -- a lady gave a talk on marketing, and she was like, you need to be, you need to look at it like, you know, like, "can so-and-so come out to play? Can we make a new friend?" Like, like very little kid kind of, and this, this will help you in sending that email. Like, I'm just being like, "hey, I'm ready to play. Are you?" And like --
Dalia: Well, I was never that kind of kid. So I don't know how that's going to -- no, I'm just kidding. No, I'm just kidding. [laughs]
Jordan: I think it helps a bit.
Dalia: No, I know, I'm just teasing. Yeah. I, that's actually a really nice way to look at it. I like that. "Hey, you want to be friends? I just want to play."
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: "I want your money." And I'm just kidding. I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
Jordan: Yeah. [laughs]
Dalia: But yeah. I like that because it is. I mean, you look at it from that um, "hey, I just want to make friends,' and then if it leads to somewhere down the road, great. If not. Okay. And we tried, you know what I mean? I like that. Thank you. That's a really good tip.
Jordan: So we talked about jealousy a little bit, about your path not being the same as someone else's, but also realizing your path is not the same as someone else's. And we had also talked about marketing and taking your time, whatever's good for you. And how else can you sum up this episode?
Dalia: I would just like to sum it up with two little thoughts. You can -- and this is something I learned and now is absolutely at the forefront of my mind every day. You can choose to either come from the creative mindset or the competitive mindset. Creative mindset encourages abundance, and what's yours is yours. And it will never be yours by taking from another. In the competitive mindset, you look at life through the lens of scarcity, either me or him, us or they, them or whatever. You know what I mean? And so you're constantly looking over your shoulder, wondering when you're going to get something or when it's going to be taken away from you. So you have the choice to decide how you're going to live, from creative mindset or from a competitive mindset. One offers you abundance, the other scarcity and lack.
Jordan: That sounds like a very good ending point. Like very good, easy takeaway. Do you want to be creative or do you want to be competitive?
Dalia: Yep.
Jordan: All right. Thank you very much for joining us.
Dalia: Yeah. Thanks guys. Um, let us know what you thought of the episode. Send us emails. Um, also like follow us on social media.
Jordan: Yeah.
Dalia: The links are all on the website. And if you have any questions or you have a specific topic you'd like to address, or you want to be a guest on our show, please just let us know. We'd love to have you and talk to you about it, so.
Jordan: Yes. Thank you. We'll see you next time.
Dalia: Bye, guys.
Jordan: Bye.
Victor: That's our show. Didn't get enough of the twins? Go to BloomingVoices.com for more information and let us know what you thought of the episode. Twitter, Instagram, email, we've got the works. We'll see you next Wednesday.
